Thursday, January 17, 2008

Are Mormons Christian because they use the name Christ in their title?

I wanted to examine this claim a while back..... however rather than reinvent the wheel so to speak I found this very well done article and yep you guessed it Mormon Coffee.

Here is a snipet

Gordon B Hinckley said “It is ironic that many state that ‘Mormons are not Christian,’ when the name of the church is the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.”

Sharon does a great job of citing some examples as to why this does not work

• Mormon Coffee is neither Mormon nor a beverage.
• Mitt Romney is not, in reality, something to be worn on the hand.
• A Ford Taurus is not a constellation comprised of star clusters including the Hyades and the Pleiades.
• Long Island Iced Tea contains vodka, tequila, rum, gin and triple sec; but, in fact, it is not, nor does it contain, tea.
• Los Angeles, often called the City of Angels, has a population of approximately 4 million people; it is not truly populated by celestial beings.
• The World Church of Jesus is Satan, founded in Detroit, Michigan in 1993 by Thayalan Reddy, is not a Christian church despite the name of Jesus in its title.


So back to my last post then when Mormons claim to be Christian is it deceptive since even they know the difference? If they all follow the prophet Gordon B. Hinckley and Hinckley said at one point:

The LDS Church News reported: "In bearing testimony of Jesus Christ, President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints 'do not believe in the traditional Christ. No, I don't. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak has been revealed in this the Dispensation of the Fulness [sic] of Times'" (June 20, 1998, ).

Does that not then contradict his prior statement about Jesus in the name of the Church and validate the claim that it is in fact A DIFFERENT JESUS. Based on the facts there must be a resounding YES.

Tuesday, January 15, 2008

Mormons claiming they are Christian is deceptive

If you do not read the Mormon Coffee Blog then let me highly recommend it to you. There are so many Christians who do not understand the differences between Mormonism and Biblical Christianity. I would contend that there is NOTHING and I mean NOTHING alike between the two. They are as opposed as fire and water. From Salvation to who Jesus Christ is; the differences are glaring. Even the morality issues we have completely different motives and have even differences in why they are important. I read this article on the Mormon Coffee Blog and I think Sharon lays it out very well.

Myths Be Gone
January 9, 2008

By Sharon Lindbloom



Myths & RealityThe LDS Church has posted a 10 minute video on it’s web site titled, “Myths & Reality.” Originally produced to answer common questions from journalists during the 2002 Olympics, the video has been updated and is now available to the public.

“Myths & Reality” opens with a minute and a half of man-on-the-street clips of people stating what they “know” about Mormons. Most of the statements are incorrect; the video subsequently seeks to dispel three of the “misunderstandings” raised. The spokesman, Steve Young, explains,

“In the next few minutes we want to show you some things we hope will dispel some myths about us, because the myths are still out there, alive and well.”

The first myth addressed is “Mormons Practice Polygamy.” The video spends 50 seconds on this topic, stating that Mormons discontinued the practice of polygamy over 100 years ago. Steve Young then explains that Mormons are “bothered” when Fundamentalist Mormons are called “Mormons” because these people are not Mormons. Gordon B. Hinckley “state[s] categorically that this church has nothing whatsoever to do with those practicing polygamy,” and the video moves on.

Myth number 2 is “Mormons Care Only For Their Own.” The video deals with this by spending 1 minute and 55 seconds highlighting the LDS Church’s laudable humanitarian efforts worldwide.

The final myth addressed is “Myth #3: Mormons Are Not Christian.” This topic is apparently considered the most important of the three; more time is given for this issue than the other two myths combined: about 3 minutes and 50 seconds.

The spokesperson during this segment is Sharlene Hawkes, a former Miss America. She says that it’s hard for Mormons to understand this myth because “We are Christian to our core.” Ms. Hawkes suggests one reason people might think Mormons are not Christian is because of the nickname “Mormon.” Mormons prefer that the full (correct) name of the Church be used because “it includes the name of the Savior” and that’s important to Mormons.

Ms. Hawkes tells viewers that Mormons love the Bible and try to follow the example of Jesus Christ, but that they are “different from other Christian faiths in important ways.” Ms. Hawkes talks about these important differences, including the Book of Mormon (a “companion to the Bible”), the belief in modern prophets and continuing revelation, the commitment to temple-building, the LDS Church as a restoration of the ancient church, the large missionary force, the focus on families, the work of compiling genealogies and how “even those who have passed on can be linked to us in an eternal family chain.” The video then concludes with Gordon B. Hinckley extolling Christ.

We can’t really expect much more than this in a 10 minute video. Still, it doesn’t seem to me that many bona fide myths were dispelled. In fairness, the LDS web site says these are the questions journalists were raising in 2002, but it also says the video “has been updated and posted on Newsroom today to help counter persistent myths about the Church.”

Are these really the questions people are asking today — the “misperceptions” they struggle with? How could anyone in America today who watches television or reads the newspaper think Mormons still practice polygamy? Are people really hung up on the misperception that Mormons aren’t actively engaged in humanitarian relief? In fact, the man-on-the-street which initially raised the issue spoke in glowing terms of how Mormons care for one another, not criticizing that they don’t care for others. Could this be a straw-man myth?

I do think “Myth #3″ is a current and persistent question coming from those outside of Mormonism. But the video did next to nothing to address the question and inform people in a meaningful way.

Journalists today clearly know and promote every “reality” contained in this video. The LDS Church’s Public Relations department has publicized all of these things many times over. I wonder if it has ever occurred to the LDS Church that perhaps the things they call “misperceptions” persist because they never adequately answer the questions.

Surely there is a better way, even in under 4 minutes, to clarify the charge, “Mormons Are Not Christian.” Maybe they could have done something like this:

“This is a complex issue and not easily explained in a short video. We believe we are — and define ourselves as — Christian. In fact, we believe that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is the truest form of Christianity on earth today and that Mormons are better than any others at following the teachings of Christ. Though we share some things with other Christian churches, Mormonism is different and unique in important ways. The foundational differences that cause some to claim Mormons aren’t Christian are found in the way we define the nature of God, the nature of Christ, and the content of the Gospel. Mormons differ significantly from traditional Christians in each of these areas — and others. Our Prophet has explained that we worship a different Christ than the Christ worshiped in traditional Christianity. Some people believe this strips Mormons of the title ‘Christian’; we disagree. We are Christian to our core. That is, we accept our Jesus Christ as the Son of God and the Redeemer of the world; differences in theology — who or what God is, and who Christ is — don’t affect that.”

What are your ideas for a myth-buster reality-promoting video segment discussing “Mormons Are Not Christian”?

Saturday, January 12, 2008

The gods should be angry

You should read this article from Pulpit Magazine, especially if the ambiguity and obscurity of the heresy that Rob Bell teaches has influenced your church.

I confess that I found the first twenty minutes or so quite helpful. Bell connected dots for me about how sacrifices develop in a culture, and he showed how these false gods impoverish entire cultures. He gave me a new appreciation for how the Levitical Law is an act of mercy from God, because God ended the ambiguity of sacrifice. He also stressed the utter uniqueness of Yahweh in a way that was encouraging, and even gave me hope that he was about to preach.

But Bell went from there into what can only be described as careful and planned ambiguity. It was obvious that he is a smart person. When he rattled off the Mesopotamian and Sumerian gods by memory, he established that he is no dummy. So when he ended the night without explaining why the sacrifice of Christ appeased God’s anger, without explaining atonement, without even touching substitution, I can’t help but note the effort that took. He spoke for over 90 minutes on the sacrifice of Christ without explaining sin, or the resurrection—which is the same as not speaking about the sacrifice of Christ.



http://www.sfpulpit.com/2007/11/21/rob-bell-the-gods-should-be-angry/

Friday, January 11, 2008

Is there another way to cover sins? Works? Money?

Sunday, January 6, 2008

Reformed Evangelist Podcast

Listen to Episode 6 now!

Listen to Two Reformed Brothers on internet talk radio

Thursday, January 3, 2008

Christianity Test

Especially because of where I live (Utah) and the Presidential Election there is an ongoing issue about who is a Christian and who is not. For example there are some who believe that Mormons are Christian. In addition there are plenty of other folks that claim "Christianity". Who sets the standard on who is a Christian? Do Christians? Do Mormons whose founder said "All Christians sects are an abomination" Does the media or the secular world get to define it. I would contend NO. I would say God and God alone defines a Christian. How has He done this.... two ways:

Almost 2000 years of Historical Christianity. There is a clear understanding of what it meant to be a Christian. You ascribed to the core principles of the belief, this after becoming Born Again. Let me list them for you.

1. The Trinity, God the Father, Jesus Christ, Holy Spirit, three persons yet ONE God. Just because you cannot wrap your mind around it does not make it untrue. Mormons do not believe this so they are not Christians, Buddists do not believe this so they are not Christian.

2. Jesus Christ is LORD, the deity of Jesus Christ as described in item 1 is essential

3. The Bible being the inspired inerrant Word of God.

4. Salvation by GRACE alone Not by Works

5. Man is sinful and rebellious to God yet God displays mercy and grace through the sacrifice and the imputed righteousness of His ONLY begotten Son Jesus Christ.

Ok so that is Historical Christianity so did they just randomly come up with this....... NO they got it from the Bible so here is part 2. These 10 questions have been used on Todd Friel's Decisions, Decisions, Decisions from Way of the Master Radio.

1. 1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Jesus his Son cleanses us from all sin.
- You walk in the light, simple as that, in addition you long for fellowship with other believers.

2. 1 John 1:8 If we say we ahve no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.
-We recognize that we are retched sinners and that is why we must humble ourselves before our great and glorious Savior

3. 1 John2:3 And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments.
- This is not saying that we are to be perfect, because point number 2 has been stated already that we are sinners. Yet as a believer we will bear fruits of repentance and may stumble into sin but does not mire and have a continuous lifestyle of sin. Sinners drink inquity like water the Bible says, Christians hate sin.

4. 1 John 2:15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
- Do you love the world more than your savior? What are your priorities? Are they all about YOU?

5. 1 John 2:23 No one who denies the Son has the Father. Whoever confesses the Son has the Father also.
-Have you denied Jesus? Have you confessed to others that he is your LORD?

6. 1 John 3:2 Beloved we are God's children now and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is.
-This one has been misinterpreted to think you can be "like" a god, but that is the oldest sin in the book, pun intended. What this is saying is do you long to see Jesus? Do you want to be with the Lord?

7. 1 John 3:8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil.
-Self explanatory like most all scripture........... notice the phrase "makes a practice"

8. 1 John 3:!4 We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brothers. Whoever does not love abides in death.
-Be careful here, sometimes love is a harsh rebuke. This is true love for one another not the fancy love we see conveyed in today's culture.

9. 1 John 4:6 WE are from God. Whoever knows God listens to us; whoever is not from God does not listen to us. By this we know the Spirit of truth and the spirit of error.
-Again many misuse or misapply this verse, but it is important to know that we must follow God's WORD which is thankfully written in the Bible.

10. 1 John 4:15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him and he in God.
-This is so critical, many today use the term "son of" in various ways. This command here is explicit, that Jesus is God. We see it again and again in scripture ie John 10:30-34. If you do not have the RIGHT Jesus Christ then you will not have God and you will not be saved. Jeff Noblit said the other day in a sermon, that "one of our biggest issues is that many do NOT know God". Not just in a saving sense but in an understanding of who God is. I think this is one of the Churches biggest issues. God is NOT an exalted man, so therefore those that preach it are HERETICS. This is a problem for most "religions" especially those that want to be called Christians. If you do not understand Jesus rightly then you do NOT have the Father and

2 Corinthians 13:5 Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith.(A) Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that(B) Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test!

Thursday, December 27, 2007

All men are born Evil

"Even Hitler was restrained by the common grace of God......... you do not believe all men are evil, well that is because you have grasped enough of Christianity to stand but you DO NOT believe the Bible."
Paul Washer

Wednesday, December 19, 2007

Night Before Christmas

I got this from a friend in email

*Twas the month before Christmas*
*When all through our land,*
*Not a Christian was praying*
*Nor taking a stand.*
*See the PC Police had taken away,*
*The reason for Christmas - no one could say.*
*The children were told by their schools not to sing,*
*About Shepherds and Wise Men and Angels and things.*
*It might hurt people's feelings, the teachers would say*
* December 25th is just a 'Holiday '.*

*Yet the shoppers were ready with cash, checks and credit*
*Pushing folks down to the floor just to get it!*
*CDs from Madonna, an X BOX, an I-pod*
*Something was changing, something quite odd! *
*Retailers promoted Ramadan and Kwanzaa*
*In hopes to sell books by Franken & Fonda.*
*As Targets were hanging their trees upside down*
* At Lowe's the word Christmas - was no where to be found.*
*At K-Mart and Staples and Penny's and Sears*
*You won't hear the word Christmas; it won't touch your ears.*

*Inclusive, sensitive, Di-ver-is-ty*
*Are words that were used to intimidate me.*
*Now Daschle, Now Darden, Now Sharpton, Wolf Blitzen*
*On Boxer, on Rather, on Kerry, on Clinton !*
*At the top of the Senate, there arose such a clatter*
*To eliminate Jesus, in all public matter.*
*And we spoke not a word, as they took away our faith*
; * Forbidden to speak of salvation and grace*

*The true Gift of Chr istmas was exchanged and discarded*
*The reason for the season, stopped before it started.*
*So as you celebrate 'Winter Break' under your 'Dream Tree'*
*Sipping your Starbucks, listen to me.*
*Choose your words carefully, choose what you say*
*Shout MERRY CHRISTMAS,
Not Happy Holiday!*

Tuesday, December 11, 2007

Mormon who loves Rob Bell's Theology?

If you have ever listened to Rob Bell you know that it is a hodge podge of misinformation, oddly quoted Bible verses, aberrant theology, a focus on culture and an lack of historical-grammatical hermetics . In his book the Velvet Elvis he denies such orthodox Christian doctrines as the Virgin Birth and attacks Salvation by Grace alone. Just those issues alone are Heretical. He is one of the new Kingdom Now proponents and allies himself with such "Emergents" as Maclaren and Pagitt. Both of which who have denied much of standard orthodox Christian doctrines.

A friend of mine and I have discussed why so many of the "Christians" who do not want to do honest witnessing, especially to Mormons love Rob Bell and the other Emergents. This is always a pretty easy discussion. Then just recently I read Jeff Fuller's article on Mormonism and Rob Bell at Reformed Evangelist, this piece begins to look at the similarities.

So what are these similarities, these are just a few of the ones I have found, it is by no means comprehensive but I would like to continue to add to it. BTW I find this extremely frightening.

Mormons and Emergents similarities
-Deny orthodox Christian Beliefs
-Ascribe to a form of relativism
-Have some agreement with Pelagianism or Universalism
-Argue against 2000 years of Christian History
-Are trying to rewrite history to suit themselves
-Have a low opinion of God's Sovereignty
-Have a low understanding of the Nature of God
-Are concerned with works as a means to usher in the kingdom

These are just a few so feel free to add to my list.

Now my friend Aaron sent me this blog post from Times and Seasons. A Mormon named Julie blogs on about how she loves Rob Bell and his theology! Lets go through this letter she wrote. My comments are in bold italics.



I Heart Rob Bell
by Julie M. Smith


I have a theological crush (not to be confused with an intellectual crush or a garden variety crush) on Rob Bell. If you haven’t heard of him, start here or here but be sure to listen to one of his sermons here. (”Both sides of the cup” is particularly good.)

I like listening to him because:

(1) He manages to successfully negotiate both Greek roots and real, personal application of scriptures in sermons that are faithful to the scriptures. He’s faithful to both the original context (and subtext) of the texts that he uses but also builds a bridge to what the text can (and should) mean today.

When she says Greek roots she must not be talking about the language because Rob does a very poor job in translating, I do not know his Koine Greek education, but hearing his sermons he does not seem to be concentrated on the actual text. I think Julie is referring to a cultural thing here. And this is a wrong understanding of how we read any text. She uses the terms "can and should". What? The text means what it means not what it potentially means? This is postmodern thinking and relativism, to use the text to justify or impose your thinking on it. This is what Rob and the Mormons do is force their presuppositions into the Bible. The Bible speaks clearly and conveys truth, not potential truth. Context, context, context.

(2) He might be hip and funny, but he’s not guilty of some of the nonsense that I’ve seen in other celebrity Christians: there’s no Christianity Lite (think Veggietales) or bizarre but popular perversions (think Prosperity Gospellers). He preaches about everything from sexual purity to gossip to care for the poor. He’s the real deal of biblical theology–no watering down, no pandering to postmodern culture.

She is definitely wrong here, yes Rob Bell tackles all the issues...even the "tough" ones but he is definitely not the "real deal" of biblical theology it is watered down and all he does is pander to the postmodern culture. I am not sure how much Julie has listened to him in fact I am sure Rob would say he does do a lot to subvert his message FOR the postmodern culture. That is why all the relativist and post moderns love him. Christian lite? Rob is a unique abstract sensationalist he is just usually doing this by going against orthodoxy or attacking other Christians.

(3) He manages to do what I think may be the single hardest feat for a gospel teacher: to convince the audience to want to mprove without making them feel that their efforts are futile. We’re probably all familiar with what it looks like when a teacher misses this mark and the audience either feels like irredeemable scum for being the only person in the room who would even think of yelling at her children or the audience is left thinking that, hey, we’re all only human and so of course we’re going to yell at the kids. But all of Bell’s sermons that I have listened to have made clear that he knew that there were people listening who were struggling with everything from addiction to despair to, well, you name it, but that all of them could and would improve their lives if they chose to follow Christ.

This statement shows Julie's hermeneutic and I think she is right on about Bell's hermeneutic they both are poor at best. The problem is where is it in scripture that God wants us to improve our lives? This is a low view of God and Scripture. God is sovereign and he will get the Glory and he wants all to come to true repentance and faith. God wants us to improve our lives by being born again. He then will then give us new desires and we will want to follow him. Julies comment here shows how so many are trying to work their way into the kingdom of God.....unfortunately Matt 7:21-23.

(4) He is also really good at emphasizing both personal morality and social justice; my impression is that many brands of Christianity over-emphasize one at the expense of the other.

While these things are important, they need to take a secondary position underneath The Gospel and true Biblical Exegesis.

(5) His sermons always make me want to be more Christlike and do a better job of following Christ.

This is concerning coming from a Mormon, because Christians have such a different view of Christ than Mormons. Is Rob Bell's understanding of Christ so skewed that Mormons who have a heretical understanding of Christ would agree with him?

I do have one concern about Rob Bell; a concern best expressed, perhaps, in an episode of King of the Hill that I have not personally technically seen but which my husband (upon whom I have much more than a crush) described to me in loving detail. Apparently Bobby had become enamored of a “skateboarding ministry.” Hank Hill pulled out a box of toys that Bobby had outgrown and expressed his concern that Jesus would end up in that box once skateboarding became passe. There will come a time when Rob Bell will fit in the cultural box of so-last-week instead of hipster. I suppose there is a risk that that will result in young people turning away from God. But I think it more likely that a new figure who meets whatever constitutes hip (or whatever they’ll call it) in 2030 will be up to the job of filling Bell’s trendy shoes. Till then, you might want to listen to some of his sermons.

I do not know where to even begin here. Rob Bell seeks to be relevant in a culture by being like the culture. He seeks to undermine the rest of Christianity by imposing a different historical interpretation of culture, tradition, even orthodoxy that is based upon super imposed ideas he brings to the table. The only thing this article shows is that right hermeneutics and adhering to the Biblical Gospel of Jesus Christ is so very important.

Monday, December 3, 2007

It is Merry CHRIST.....mas

Ok seriously it drives me crazy to even hear the term "Happy Holidays" it just seems like an attack on Christmas and everything Christian. I am not sure why all the retailers and so many others want to appeal to the small minority who are offended by the term Merry CHRISTmas but they do. I am offended by the term Happy Holidays and I think they should change it, but they usually don't listen to me :). Here is a great video by Go Fish that illustrates this point.



Let's use the opportunities when someone does wish us an abstract, non committal and totally politically correct "Happy Holidays" to witness to them. It is an open door to talk about spiritual things and of course present The Gospel.