Wednesday, July 23, 2008

Why Emergents and Post Moderns get up my nose!


Over the past few years I have run into this cult of non extremist- extremist that call themselves Emergent. There are plenty of them out there and they have a following Brian Mclaren, Rob Bell, Doug Pagitt seem to lead this group. However if you ask the group themselves they really have no basis for authority from either a person or the Bible. They are a group that base much of there reason and belief set from the culture or re writing history (especially Biblical History) There is more to the issue of the theology of the Emergents that are not only unbiblical but run contrary to any standard of moral truth.

Many Emergents accept abortion, the destruction of marriage and evolution. This allows them to be "free thinkers" in their own mind. They long to be relevant to the culture and they change everything from method to doctrine to meld with the culture. This causes many problems for them and absolute truth at this point will fly out the window.

I want to take the time now to look at some issues with the Emergents and Post Moderns. I put them in the same group because generally and largely they are not only similar but promote one another, and their ideals seem to be linked inexplicably.

- They deny absolute truth, usually absolutely! If you say there is no absolute truth is that an absolute statement predicated on your absolute truth?

- They use experience or feelings as an overriding factor in how they operate and come to knowledge and truth. How can we trust how we feel or what seems right? This is subjective and really provides no cop ability for truth. In fact it purposefully obscures the truth because it is so reliant on feeling. This is how New Ageism, Mormonism, Scientology, and many other false doctrines operate.

- Emergents claim Christianity, in Mclaren's case this seems purely for the publicity of removing the deity of our Creator in exchange for a social Gospel that in reality is not very social for the unborn, for marriage, only for a select group of what he claims are disenfranchised peoples.

- They are hard to pin down, even though now we have finally pinned Rob Bell down on him denying the Virgin Birth, and the Deity of Christ in print, he has been difficult to pin down. His logic and words are very obscure to say the least and does not allow for real criticizim or correction. An example of this if you have listened to him is he will start a talk with something like this. In Genesis there is a Garden, and Gardens grow corn, and so that means to me that we must stop the oil crisis with Ethanol..... This is such a poor logical jump and bad hermeneutic that it makes me literally want to cry that people would even listen to him.

- They try and meld things that really do not go together like Evolution and Christianity or Abortion and Christianity or Obama and Christianity or untruth and truth, you get the idea

They have come to Utah and in one of their first sessions they are going to discuss a heresy that was refuted 2000 years ago. I am not sure how they can call this Post Modern but they have tried. The conference they endorse is a justification by works conference as they seek to undermine the writings of Paul and pit them against the Gospel accounts. It lacks all the components of seeking Truth and instead have replaced it with a feelings oriented dialogs in order to satiate their need for a social works based false gospel that does not equate sin as sin. More on this as we examine how they have endorsed Obama through a non political polictal means.... I know it sounds absurd even as I write it...... I need to blow my nose now.

12 Comments:

didymus said...
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Andy said...

I am sure you had a great dialog about dialoging and wasted everyones time.

Gay Marriage will ruin the institute for Marriage period, if you don't believe so, uh please see Rome before the fall.

Your statement on truth defies logic so, it is so backwards I refuse to get in such nonsensical arguments.

MaClaren is a heretic

Thomas you are just in a new and different cult now, just like you were in before, and before that. I think God is trying to reach you to the Truth.

Rob Bell is not hard to understand but he almost sounds Christian unless he is talking about real doctrines. It had been difficult to get actual writings that showed he was a heretic, he fixed that for us with Velvet Elvis and Sex God. Now we have his heresy in writing.

I cannot believe a post modern like yourself is telling me what I know and what I dont know, how ridiculous is that? I believed in Evolution for 25 years my friend. I may actually understand it better than yourself. And that is the actual problem.

I recommend reading The Devils Delusion, it is written by a secular individual, Berlinski a mathematician, he will explain Evolution to you more precisely, because you may not know it as absolutely as you think you do. Also recommend Behe's book The Edge of Evolution and quite a few others. I find it odd how judgmental and absolutely sure you are about me on this topic, it is funny. All Emergents seem to be the same, they claim they don't have the truth absolutely but then absolutely ascribe to various things in defiance. And I do agree all Emergents do not subscribe to Evolution, but the vast majority of the ones I have run into do.

Of course you disagree with me, which I find odd because it goes against your own Philosophy, I am not hear for you to agree to disagree merely to look for truth. Please understand I have made corrections myself in the past about certain things I have been dogmatic about. If you and your few new Emergent friends see fit to discuss, attack or whatever during coffee then so be it, you don't believe what Paul wrote about that anyway. :)

Finally I think it is great you are all closed minded free thinkers as Pagitt would put it, however I think you and I need to define what we believe makes a Christian a Christian, so would you please tell me how we define a Christian?

Thanks for sharing with us,
Andy

didymus said...
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Andy said...

You dont have to listen to me, you can choose to continue to find people who will scratch your itching ears.

Truth is what is in accordance with reality.

Check and see if that is the case.

Andy said...

Didymus,

Lets start at the basic level lets define Christianity. I want your definition.

We can go from there,

Andy

didymus said...
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Andy said...

Didymus,

Wow, your sarcasm and rhetoric is not fit for what I know about you.
Let me try now:

I am not trying to win I seek to "understand" I do not want debate I want "dialog", I need not prove lets just "contemplate" so we can "dissolve" our preexisting notions about "truth" we can "redefine" orthodoxy so that it does not get in the way of our "cultural immersion and acceptance".

Seriously, we should be able to have a conversation. I do not censor you on my blog, if you do not like doing it over here lets do it on yours. Give me fair justification and point by point examination of where I am wrong. I have been wrong before so it is likely it will happen again.

Really what makes a Christian? What is our Authority as Christians? Why does it matter?

I want you to help me understand how an Emergent like yourself would define those two items. If you would prefer you can email me or I will not respond after you post, I just want to know how you define them. (hands Didymus his towel back)

didymus said...
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Andy said...

Fair enough my comments back were trite and were severe. I have to remember "Truth in Love", and I appreciate you calling me on that. I was trying to stick it to you with those comments and that is wrong. I do really want to understand what you believe. Saying it was a waste of time was absolutely inappropriate. I was brash, and for that I apologize.

didymus said...
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Leonard said...

I don't see how anyone can say there are more issues then abortion. I don't care if the budget gets balanced and this country comes out on top in every single thing on the table. If we are still slaughtering our most defenseless people then we are morally bankrupt and heaping judgment on ourselves. I wish God would pour out His wrath on this country. We are ripe for His judgment.

Abortion is the one thing that has to be settled first. All else pales in comparison.

And you cannot be Christian and pro-choice (murder)

didymus said...
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